Dorin Duminica If I had any confidence they would do something about it I might. As it is, we likely would get into an extended "cannot reproduce, please provide more info, whatever..." debate and I just don't have the stomach for it anymore.
I was joking, because I see 8 equal messages. Do you get internal messages in a loop? Is that what you mean? When I see an internal error it is usually just one.
My first QC entry a very long time ago was about an error message in a popup, fired by the IDE in a loop. I wanted to save my work before killing the IDE. The point was that I actually succeeded to bring up the IDE main menu by clicking with the mouse quick enough after pressing Enter to dismiss the popup. (After 50 attempts or so.) My suggestion was to add a feature to stop the endless loop automatically and give the developer the opportunity to save files. Maybe a variation of this idea will eventually be implemented.
Radek Červinka Yes, without DevExtensions the IDE (XE2.3) crashes at least once when building the projectgroup. XE6 does it twice... And without GExperts the IDE has hardly any usability for backend developers. Besides, these two aren't the problem. We have looked into this quite often without them active/loaded and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
Lars Fosdal Any change really. Don't know exactly what I was doing. Extending a class probably. We really get this a lot regardless of what we are doing.
I suspect that generics and interfaces and especially their combination are involved.
Must be interaction between our code base and the IDE, but it getting very, very, very old...
Just now discovered for example that the compiler (the actual one, not the IDE background compiler) complains about strict protected properties not being visible in a derived class when it does see them when I remove the strict. Can't reproduce it though in a SSCCE...
OK, keep IDEFixPack and DevExtension. Try disable all others. If doesn't help try disable everything from Tools/Options/Code Insight and close Structure View. If helps, try enable some of this.
Radek Červinka Don't have any others... And most IDE options have already been turned off... No error insight, no code insight, no red sguigly lines...
Gustav Schubert That's why I hit ctrl-shift-s every time a pause for more than two seconds....
IDE regularly takes one or two of my cores to 100% too.
Try bringing up the Task Manager when it does. That often makes the IDE respond to mouse/keyboard again. Don't trust it afterward though. So I usually restart it. Gonna be such fun when we change to XE6 with its ridiculous startup time.
Marjan Venema When froze try two things: Using Process monitor you can see process activity include disc. Sometimes I see repeatly reading some dcu, so I deleted dcu with .bat and IDE unlocked. This was problem with one IDE plugin. Second: using Process Explorer you can get call stack with modules of thread with 100% - maybe help
Radek Červinka Well spotted! Had escaped my notice. Tab doesn't show anything may just be visible for whatever reason, but I'll look into it. Thanks for insisting!
Radek Červinka Stop blaming addons for errors that are clearly caused by the compiler. :) These internal errors we keep getting are as old as generics and anonymous methods are in Delphi (unfortunately). From some of them you can recover when changing the code or do a clean others stay until you restart the IDE and go away even without changing the code.
Just had another nice harvest, different AV number(s) [Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B65111B-R00310004-0 [Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B656AEF-R4C60458B-0
Maybe I should start sending EMBA a bugreport everytime this happens. Apart from the fact that it takes too long, these happen so often I might even end up in their spam filters ...
Radek Červinka If your plugin raises an AV that will pop right into your face. Internal error reported in the messages pane is raised from the compiler chain. So unless your plugin hacks into the compiler (in such cases you wanna make sure that things like IDEFixPack/Compiler FixPack are innocent) it cannot be your addon.
Marjan Venema - ref you last errors: If you isolate the unit that this happened in (i.e. load it separately, with no other project info) - do you get the same error if you try to do a rename?
Lars Fosdal you mean like opening the unit from windows explorer? Not sure. My guess is it won't be a problem as I have been doing a number of rename refactors in that unit today, and they didn't pose a problem. Probably just happens after (other) internal AV's occurred.
I sometimes have errors 'failed to setup refactoring' and and error message. I think I have managed to get it to work by closing units that were not part of the project directly, eg from a package, or just open to refer to. I need to spend more time (some time) checking this, so it might be wrong.
Sue King You are probably absolutely right. The IDE sucks at doing stuff "outside" of the current project. For me however it is not an option to start closing units when the IDE refuses to refactor. That would take more time than executing the refactoring with the IDE would save.
On a sidenote: the IDE should be way better at working cross-project when you have a project group open. It is a big frustration that the IDE does not help me one little bit when it comes to working on an actual project and its test companion at the same time...
Marjan Venema Since you mentioned project groups: I had stability problems in the past when I dared to load a slightly changed copy of one project together with the original project in a project group. So perhaps you can check if you have two units with the same name - but in different locations - in the project group, belonging (and explicitely referenced) from two different projects. The IDE may just use the wrong unit sometimes, especially when it searches for a unit which contains a base class. Things may depend on which of these units you have open in the IDE and the order you opened them. I had (and have) a reproducible test case for it. Just check if you have units with the same name accross the project group. If so it may be worth investigating. Otherwise ignore.
Gustav Schubert We do indeed. And unfortunately there is no way around it. The only option would be to remove projects from the group and that is a non-starter.
The IDE unfortunately is pretty ignorant with regard to project groups. After all these years of having project groups, it still puts the name of the first project (instead of the active one) in which a unit is found in the IDE's caption - even when the active project has the unit listed explicitly in its dpr...
The in-attention to user experience and developer productivity beyond programming by drag-n-drop and "implementing event handlers" has had me pulling my hair out for ages. And it becomes worse every time I get a whiff of what other IDE's do to help developers do a good job.
try https:// quality .embarcadero.com/
ReplyDeletej/k I feel your pain...
Did you hit Ctrl-F9 every hour before Feierabend?
ReplyDeleteDorin Duminica If I had any confidence they would do something about it I might. As it is, we likely would get into an extended "cannot reproduce, please provide more info, whatever..." debate and I just don't have the stomach for it anymore.
ReplyDeleteGustav Schubert I hit Shift-F9 (Build, not Compile) a lot more often than once an hour.
ReplyDeleteWhat Feierabend?
I was joking, because I see 8 equal messages. Do you get internal messages in a loop? Is that what you mean? When I see an internal error it is usually just one.
ReplyDeleteGustav Schubert Yep, in a loop, spontaneously and way more than 8...
ReplyDeleteMy first QC entry a very long time ago was about an error message in a popup, fired by the IDE in a loop. I wanted to save my work before killing the IDE. The point was that I actually succeeded to bring up the IDE main menu by clicking with the mouse quick enough after pressing Enter to dismiss the popup. (After 50 attempts or so.) My suggestion was to add a feature to stop the endless loop automatically and give the developer the opportunity to save files. Maybe a variation of this idea will eventually be implemented.
ReplyDeleteKeeping traditions for last 10 years )
ReplyDeleteCan't find AV0B577151-RF93F24161-0 in the QP site.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of code change were you doing when you got this?
Do you have any IDE experts installed? I see FixInsight. Try disable all first.
ReplyDeleteRadek Červinka Yes, without DevExtensions the IDE (XE2.3) crashes at least once when building the projectgroup. XE6 does it twice... And without GExperts the IDE has hardly any usability for backend developers. Besides, these two aren't the problem. We have looked into this quite often without them active/loaded and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal Any change really. Don't know exactly what I was doing. Extending a class probably. We really get this a lot regardless of what we are doing.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that generics and interfaces and especially their combination are involved.
Must be interaction between our code base and the IDE, but it getting very, very, very old...
Just now discovered for example that the compiler (the actual one, not the IDE background compiler) complains about strict protected properties not being visible in a derived class when it does see them when I remove the strict. Can't reproduce it though in a SSCCE...
OK, keep IDEFixPack and DevExtension. Try disable all others. If doesn't help try disable everything from Tools/Options/Code Insight and close Structure View. If helps, try enable some of this.
ReplyDeleteRadek Červinka Don't have any others... And most IDE options have already been turned off... No error insight, no code insight, no red sguigly lines...
ReplyDeleteMarjan Venema
ReplyDeleteOK, I think FixInsight because your screenshot. Sorry
Gustav Schubert That's why I hit ctrl-shift-s every time a pause for more than two seconds....
ReplyDeleteIDE regularly takes one or two of my cores to 100% too.
Try bringing up the Task Manager when it does. That often makes the IDE respond to mouse/keyboard again. Don't trust it afterward though. So I usually restart it. Gonna be such fun when we change to XE6 with its ridiculous startup time.
Marjan Venema
ReplyDeleteWhen froze try two things: Using Process monitor you can see process activity include disc. Sometimes I see repeatly reading some dcu, so I deleted dcu with .bat and IDE unlocked. This was problem with one IDE plugin. Second: using Process Explorer you can get call stack with modules of thread with 100% - maybe help
Radek Červinka Well spotted! Had escaped my notice. Tab doesn't show anything may just be visible for whatever reason, but I'll look into it. Thanks for insisting!
ReplyDeleteRadek Červinka That Tab remains visible even when I turn off everything on the Editor Option's Code Insight page... :(
ReplyDeleteMarjan Venema
ReplyDeleteI think that is this extension - http://sourceoddity.com/fixinsight/ http://sourceoddity.com/images/screenshot_2.png
Radek Červinka Stop blaming addons for errors that are clearly caused by the compiler. :)
ReplyDeleteThese internal errors we keep getting are as old as generics and anonymous methods are in Delphi (unfortunately).
From some of them you can recover when changing the code or do a clean others stay until you restart the IDE and go away even without changing the code.
Just had another nice harvest, different AV number(s)
ReplyDelete[Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B65111B-R00310004-0
[Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B656AEF-R4C60458B-0
Maybe I should start sending EMBA a bugreport everytime this happens. Apart from the fact that it takes too long, these happen so often I might even end up in their spam filters ...
Stefan Glienke
ReplyDeleteSorry, I always thinking that internal errors have own codes http://www.devsuperpage.com/search/Articles.asp?ArtID=950287 , in this case is AV = Acess Violation, so I think can be simple every addon in IDE. Maybe I am wrong.
Radek Červinka If your plugin raises an AV that will pop right into your face. Internal error reported in the messages pane is raised from the compiler chain. So unless your plugin hacks into the compiler (in such cases you wanna make sure that things like IDEFixPack/Compiler FixPack are innocent) it cannot be your addon.
ReplyDeleteAnd a bunch of these arrives when trying to start a rename refactor:
ReplyDelete[Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B668450-RF6333BBC-0
[Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B668450-RF6333BBC-0
[Fatal Error] F2084 Internal Error: AV0B668450-RF6333BBC-0
I'll stop now... it's getting tedious... :sad:
ReplyDeleteMarjan Venema - ref you last errors: If you isolate the unit that this happened in (i.e. load it separately, with no other project info) - do you get the same error if you try to do a rename?
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal you mean like opening the unit from windows explorer? Not sure. My guess is it won't be a problem as I have been doing a number of rename refactors in that unit today, and they didn't pose a problem. Probably just happens after (other) internal AV's occurred.
ReplyDeleteWas no different in vanilla Delphi 2010 .. :@
ReplyDeleteI sometimes have errors 'failed to setup refactoring' and and error message. I think I have managed to get it to work by closing units that were not part of the project directly, eg from a package, or just open to refer to. I need to spend more time (some time) checking this, so it might be wrong.
ReplyDeleteSue King You are probably absolutely right. The IDE sucks at doing stuff "outside" of the current project. For me however it is not an option to start closing units when the IDE refuses to refactor. That would take more time than executing the refactoring with the IDE would save.
ReplyDeleteOn a sidenote: the IDE should be way better at working cross-project when you have a project group open. It is a big frustration that the IDE does not help me one little bit when it comes to working on an actual project and its test companion at the same time...
Marjan Venema Since you mentioned project groups: I had stability problems in the past when I dared to load a slightly changed copy of one project together with the original project in a project group. So perhaps you can check if you have two units with the same name - but in different locations - in the project group, belonging (and explicitely referenced) from two different projects. The IDE may just use the wrong unit sometimes, especially when it searches for a unit which contains a base class. Things may depend on which of these units you have open in the IDE and the order you opened them. I had (and have) a reproducible test case for it. Just check if you have units with the same name accross the project group. If so it may be worth investigating. Otherwise ignore.
ReplyDeleteGustav Schubert We do indeed. And unfortunately there is no way around it. The only option would be to remove projects from the group and that is a non-starter.
ReplyDeleteThe IDE unfortunately is pretty ignorant with regard to project groups. After all these years of having project groups, it still puts the name of the first project (instead of the active one) in which a unit is found in the IDE's caption - even when the active project has the unit listed explicitly in its dpr...
The in-attention to user experience and developer productivity beyond programming by drag-n-drop and "implementing event handlers" has had me pulling my hair out for ages. And it becomes worse every time I get a whiff of what other IDE's do to help developers do a good job.