I'm just very excited for the arrival of RAD Studio XE9 in about two months, according to the 6-month release cycle, I'd love too see, in that release, Task Continuation and Cancellation Token feature to start up my projects :D
Horácio Filho Get in touch with Marco Cantù and Allen Bauer (who as far as I know wrote the PPL) and let them know directly what you're interested in. Make sure you have Quality reports too, or vote for the existing ones, or even better link them here so we can vote too.
Generally you need to assume something won't go in the next release, because by the time it's this close, the release is already planned, and I don't know if something like this is included in the plan or not (and if I did know I couldn't comment.) So the earlier you let them know, the better.
I just wish they'd switch to a model where we get something more like incremental updates, that don't necessarily break binary compatibility with old DCUs etc.
I mean, break when you have to, lets not hold progress back, but when most of what they're doing is trying to make the mobile product usable, I don't think it should be an automatic given that VCL components from XE8 need to be repurchased/updated just to link with XE9.
I appreciate there is more to it than that, of course - there's a whole industry that thrives on us needing new versions of their products every time Delphi goes up a version number. :-)
Rob Uttley As long as the RTL/VCL/FMX is in change, the .dcu's will necessarily have to change as well. Classes are changed, methods are renamed, parameters or types changed, constants are changed, are some changes that will affect linking.
As for needing to repurchase the components - that's more of a component vendor issues, rather than Delphi issue?
Lars Fosdal Agreed. If you have to repurchase a component to get it to work with a new version, you're Doing It Wrong. Specifically, you're almost certainly not getting the source for the component, which is something you should always do. Any component vendor who sells components without source is abusive and you really should not be doing business with them.
Lars Fosdal it is a vendor issue as well, you're right - but we managed to have binary compatibility between D2006 and D2007. It just feels like it's something that they ought to be able to control a bit more. Just a wish, I guess :-)
Rob Uttley Even the D2006/7 binary compatibility required a hack. They introduced glass support in that version and had to do something tricky with the fields to get it to work without breaking compatibility. IMO it probably wasn't worth it.
Mason Wheeler Components: I'm a tools vendor not a component vendor, but charging for new IDE versions seems wrong to me, source or not. But I am fine with charging after a support period ends, per year (say), so that in that year for which you've bought support, you get something that works for all the new IDE versions released in that time. If you wait a long time, it's fair to buy a new or upgrade license.
Navigator is like that: the license includes a year's updates and support, so if you buy it now, you will also get the updates for XE9 and XE10 for free (assuming they keep the same release schedule, etc.) That seems a decent way to do it to me. Roman Yankovsky does the same for FixInsight.
Maybe it was worth it for binary compatibility, I don't know.
I think another approach would be for DCUs to be higher-level, so an interface would have to have a breaking change, not just any change, for a DCU to become invalid. Thinking about it, I agree, it'd be really nice if Embarcadero did that.
Hello David Millington :D, Some months ago right here in Google Plus, Allen Bauer wrote the comment below: - Allen Bauer 25 de mai de 2015
Top of my list that may or may not intersect with what folks here want (in no particular order or priority):
[...]
Non Compiler related items (RTL stuff)
1. Full Continuation support in Parallel library 2. Cancellation token support in Parallel library and Async
[...] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And in StackOverflow, some days after XE7 release, he wrote this as an answer: - Allen Bauer Nov 23 '14 at 0:27
Continuations are internally implemented, however they came in too late to fully expose them. They are on the list for a future release. [...] -
I think this feature may be in final stage for release :D
Bruce Cano Embarcadero didn't update the roadmap for the second half, it should have been done after XE8 release :( I don't know about Linux support, maybe the server side can be on next roadmap. But Linux will be ARC-enabled according to a Allen Bauer's comment :D
I'll settle for a solid IDE and debugger. That's the only thing I really miss at the moment.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal And coffee (but that is my issue) :-D
ReplyDeletebetter performance and lower file size for mobile apps would also be greate :)
ReplyDeleteNicholas Ring Got a coffee machine which keeps me juiced all day :)
ReplyDeleteHorácio Filho Get in touch with Marco Cantù and Allen Bauer (who as far as I know wrote the PPL) and let them know directly what you're interested in. Make sure you have Quality reports too, or vote for the existing ones, or even better link them here so we can vote too.
ReplyDeleteGenerally you need to assume something won't go in the next release, because by the time it's this close, the release is already planned, and I don't know if something like this is included in the plan or not (and if I did know I couldn't comment.) So the earlier you let them know, the better.
I just wish they'd switch to a model where we get something more like incremental updates, that don't necessarily break binary compatibility with old DCUs etc.
ReplyDeleteI mean, break when you have to, lets not hold progress back, but when most of what they're doing is trying to make the mobile product usable, I don't think it should be an automatic given that VCL components from XE8 need to be repurchased/updated just to link with XE9.
I appreciate there is more to it than that, of course - there's a whole industry that thrives on us needing new versions of their products every time Delphi goes up a version number. :-)
Rob Uttley As long as the RTL/VCL/FMX is in change, the .dcu's will necessarily have to change as well. Classes are changed, methods are renamed, parameters or types changed, constants are changed, are some changes that will affect linking.
ReplyDeleteAs for needing to repurchase the components - that's more of a component vendor issues, rather than Delphi issue?
Lars Fosdal Agreed. If you have to repurchase a component to get it to work with a new version, you're Doing It Wrong. Specifically, you're almost certainly not getting the source for the component, which is something you should always do. Any component vendor who sells components without source is abusive and you really should not be doing business with them.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal it is a vendor issue as well, you're right - but we managed to have binary compatibility between D2006 and D2007. It just feels like it's something that they ought to be able to control a bit more. Just a wish, I guess :-)
ReplyDeleteRob Uttley Even the D2006/7 binary compatibility required a hack. They introduced glass support in that version and had to do something tricky with the fields to get it to work without breaking compatibility. IMO it probably wasn't worth it.
ReplyDeleteMason Wheeler Components: I'm a tools vendor not a component vendor, but charging for new IDE versions seems wrong to me, source or not. But I am fine with charging after a support period ends, per year (say), so that in that year for which you've bought support, you get something that works for all the new IDE versions released in that time. If you wait a long time, it's fair to buy a new or upgrade license.
Navigator is like that: the license includes a year's updates and support, so if you buy it now, you will also get the updates for XE9 and XE10 for free (assuming they keep the same release schedule, etc.) That seems a decent way to do it to me. Roman Yankovsky does the same for FixInsight.
Ahh, fair enough, I guess it is what it is, then.... :-)
ReplyDeleteRob Uttley I got curious since I couldn't remember the details of how they did it. If you're interested, read all about it here: http://hallvards.blogspot.de/2007/03/review-delphi-2007-for-win32-beta-part_11.html
ReplyDeleteMaybe it was worth it for binary compatibility, I don't know.
I think another approach would be for DCUs to be higher-level, so an interface would have to have a breaking change, not just any change, for a DCU to become invalid. Thinking about it, I agree, it'd be really nice if Embarcadero did that.
Heh, just skimmed it (need a quiet room and more coffee to understand some of that) but the final paragraph made me smile :
ReplyDelete"I highly recommend Delphi 2007 Win32 for all native Delphi developers!"
Myself, I ended up being 'stuck' on D2007 for a long, long time and only in the last year or so quickly jumped through XE2, XE3 and now XE8.
D2007 was a great version, I'd put it right up there with D5 and D7 as a classic rock-steady version that you'd bet your job on :-)
Hello David Millington :D, Some months ago right here in Google Plus, Allen Bauer wrote the comment below:
ReplyDelete-
Allen Bauer
25 de mai de 2015
Top of my list that may or may not intersect with what folks here want (in no particular order or priority):
[...]
Non Compiler related items (RTL stuff)
1. Full Continuation support in Parallel library
2. Cancellation token support in Parallel library and Async
[...]
-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And in StackOverflow, some days after XE7 release, he wrote this as an answer:
-
Allen Bauer
Nov 23 '14 at 0:27
Continuations are internally implemented, however they came in too late to fully expose them. They are on the list for a future release. [...]
-
I think this feature may be in final stage for release :D
Horácio Filho Great news!
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington Allen Bauer also said about more DCU resilience across versions :D
ReplyDeleteWindows Per-Monitor DPI support
ReplyDeletehttps://quality.embarcadero.com/browse/RSP-9679
And the support for Linux???
ReplyDeleteBruce Cano Embarcadero didn't update the roadmap for the second half, it should have been done after XE8 release :( I don't know about Linux support, maybe the server side can be on next roadmap. But Linux will be ARC-enabled according to a Allen Bauer's comment :D
ReplyDelete