It didn't. DOS was replaced by Windows and the need for DOS programs dwindled. There are probably quite a few people who still use Turbo Pascal for those few DOS installations that still exist. (I'm one of them and I'm looking forward to the time I no longer need it.)
Lars Fosdal , the interesting part is that people still remember it's golden days :), in that era Turbo Pascal was popular as C# or Java now or even more.
Even more. It was the tool to write all kinds of DOS programs that were fast, easy to use and low maintenance. You don't find this today, not even in Delphi ;-)
I would love to do some delphi work again, but they lost me when they decided to go the dotnot way. haven't been using windows for the last 15 years or so, and I do not see them porting it to linux anytime soon.
Uwe Raabe agree. By supporting Linux i mean actually having GTK widgets, and KDE widgets. For better or for worse, Linux does have 2 wildly used desktop managers. Something which most windows users does not seem to understand. The problem with Kylex was that they only cater for the lowest possible denominator, they also statically linked in the GUI widgets which meant that themeing on Linux did not work.
I agree with the minimal Linux Desktop but I think they will be releasing some sort of Linux Server support otherwise you can use Lazarus for developing an application at the moment.
Everything is on a hold pattern until Idera takes fully over and releases the roadmap for this year.
David Heffernan Linux user here. How may I help? Life has been great since I took a Ubuntu first, Windows second approach. Ubuntu 16.04 w/4.4 kernel will be great.
Andries Spies If Delphi supported Linux desktop apps, it would more than likely be via Firemonkey, which could emulate GTK and KDE. With Firemonkey, you could define any style of widgets you want.
Richard Baroniunas Browser based statistics are more accurate. It shows Linux based desktop OSes doing better than 1%. One counter showing 2.44%. All improved numbers compared to where it was. And then when it comes to server applications, Linux is killing as a cloud solution. Lots of growth with OpenStack.
+Kyle Cool. Not many of you though, are there? So I don't see desktop Linux as a profitable market for Emba. Or do you think that they'd make money by targeting desktop Linux?
Kyle Miller Linux as a server solution will always be a top contender because it is a free solution when compared to Windows where there is a cost.
As a desktop OS, Windows is the winner. 1% to a 2.44% is still small. Take away the Android ratings.
EMB/Idera depending on whether it is cost effective or the demand is large, may release a version that supports creating a Linux Service app (Kylix is there but almost certain it would have to have a major overhaul to be brought into the Rad Studio).
At the moment Rad Studio supports Android and Apple, maybe Linux servers in the future but that has been mentioned for the past 4 to 5 years.
If you want to create Linux apps Lazarus is the way to go at the moment until a decision is made by Idera.
David Heffernan If Emb enters the Linux server market, they should, at a minimum, set the stage for the community to build a GUI solution on top. Think D.P.F. components for Linux. Could adding Firemonkey support for Linux be profitable? Depends on how much additional work it requires. There are a lot of parts of FMX on other operating systems that could transfer relatively easily to Linux. In the long term, it's possible. As long as they plant the seed, they could monitor its growth.
Richard Baroniunas Linux desktop is also free. Linux success is more than its low cost. True on Lazarus if staying with Pascal.
Problem with any kind of emulation layer is that it will always not fit nicely with the current desktop. Just have a look the the train wreck called Swing (Java). I'm using Gnome 3, and I find the desktop actually much nicer to work with than even window 10 (which I actually like). And would kill to have a great productivity tool like Delphi running on it, instead using the hotpotch of Python, C/C++. Writing apps in Delphi was fun for me, as it was the first language I used to generate income.
Kyle Miller Yes, Linux Desktop is free but there is so little amount of users in the USA that it does not allow for a profit to be generated unless you are developing applications for internal usage.
Allowing FMX to generate Linux Server Applications would be better since there are a huge amount of web hosting firms that use Linux.
Mason Wheeler Ok, I will be clearer on this, any new type of development will come from the FireMonkey side and should operate with the similar concept as it is done with Android / OSX-iOS projects using the Rad Studio.
That being said, it could happen but once again it depends on the developers that want it and whether money can be made.
Sorry to say but Linux desktops are far and few to be seen in the near future. This discussion has been going on for years.
Richard Baroniunas Yep, and "this year" has, for years, been "going to be the year in which desktop Linux takes off."
Not gonna happen, not this year or any year, not until the core Linux community stops being dominated by people who display outright hostility and contempt for the fundamental principles that desktop computing was based around.
In particular, if you still think that a command line is a user interface, or that it's appropriate to deploy a system in which it is necessary for the average end-user to know that a command line even exists for any reason, you are not qualified to build a desktop system for end-users. That ship sailed over 30 years ago with the advent of the Macintosh, and the *nix community has been in denial ever since.
I've never been a fan of Planck's cynical comment that progress happens by all the old guys who don't like your new discovery dying off, but I think in this particular case it just might be correct.
Andries Spies It depends on the challenges the emulation layer is having to deal with. Some have done it poorly and others are just fine. You can have full emulation or a hybrid. Firemonkey offers a rendering property for some controls and native being an option. No doubt the option will grow to more controls. While native look and feel is very important, I think user experience takes precedence. This is more obvious in the world of the web.
Mason Wheeler You don't have to use the CLI. My wife uses Ubuntu and knows nothing of CLI. There are plenty of GUI apps and an app store to find them. And, you can add other software sources to get access to even more software. No CLI required. Now, knowing the CLI gives you more powerful just like knowing environmental variables and such in Windows is helpful. How many times have you Window experts told the novices something along the times of "Click the Start button and then Run. Type "cmd" and press enter."? Windows needs CLI too.
Kyle Miller I've never given that advice to anyone. I've never needed to. The closest I ever came to it was one time when a friend needed to change the extension of a ton of files in the same folder. I gave him the proper magic incantation and said "open Notepad, paste this in, save it with a .cmd extension, then run that file from Explorer."
It didn't. DOS was replaced by Windows and the need for DOS programs dwindled. There are probably quite a few people who still use Turbo Pascal for those few DOS installations that still exist. (I'm one of them and I'm looking forward to the time I no longer need it.)
ReplyDeleteWhat is interesting about it? It was a tool designed for a OS which has died out. Hence, it went the way of the dinosaurs.
ReplyDeletepersonally it is the begin... end statement which i could not stand anymore. 😈
ReplyDeleteDo you even type? 🔨
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal , the interesting part is that people still remember it's golden days :), in that era Turbo Pascal was popular as C# or Java now or even more.
ReplyDeleteEven more. It was the tool to write all kinds of DOS programs that were fast, easy to use and low maintenance. You don't find this today, not even in Delphi ;-)
ReplyDeleteThomas Mueller , You are right, even it's price was available for all kinds of Developers ;-)
ReplyDeleteI would love to do some delphi work again, but they lost me when they decided to go the dotnot way. haven't been using windows for the last 15 years or so, and I do not see them porting it to linux anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteAndries Spies Where "porting to Linux" and "supporting Linux" are still different.
ReplyDeleteUwe Raabe agree. By supporting Linux i mean actually having GTK widgets, and KDE widgets. For better or for worse, Linux does have 2 wildly used desktop managers. Something which most windows users does not seem to understand. The problem with Kylex was that they only cater for the lowest possible denominator, they also statically linked in the GUI widgets which meant that themeing on Linux did not work.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see non-visual Linux support. As for Linux desktop apps - that marked is of limited interest, IMO. Too small, too fragmented.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the minimal Linux Desktop but I think they will be releasing some sort of Linux Server support otherwise you can use Lazarus for developing an application at the moment.
ReplyDeleteEverything is on a hold pattern until Idera takes fully over and releases the roadmap for this year.
Where are the Linux desktop apps users?
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
ReplyDeleteThis will show about 90 percent are using a Windows OS while OSX takes 9 percent with a small 1 percent for Linux.
The emphasis should be on the Linux Server.
David Heffernan On Android. ;-)
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan Linux user here. How may I help? Life has been great since I took a Ubuntu first, Windows second approach. Ubuntu 16.04 w/4.4 kernel will be great.
ReplyDeleteAndries Spies If Delphi supported Linux desktop apps, it would more than likely be via Firemonkey, which could emulate GTK and KDE. With Firemonkey, you could define any style of widgets you want.
Richard Baroniunas Browser based statistics are more accurate. It shows Linux based desktop OSes doing better than 1%. One counter showing 2.44%. All improved numbers compared to where it was. And then when it comes to server applications, Linux is killing as a cloud solution. Lots of growth with OpenStack.
+Kyle Cool. Not many of you though, are there? So I don't see desktop Linux as a profitable market for Emba. Or do you think that they'd make money by targeting desktop Linux?
ReplyDeleteKyle Miller Linux as a server solution will always be a top contender because it is a free solution when compared to Windows where there is a cost.
ReplyDeleteAs a desktop OS, Windows is the winner. 1% to a 2.44% is still small. Take away the Android ratings.
EMB/Idera depending on whether it is cost effective or the demand is large, may release a version that supports creating a Linux Service app (Kylix is there but almost certain it would have to have a major overhaul to be brought into the Rad Studio).
At the moment Rad Studio supports Android and Apple, maybe Linux servers in the future but that has been mentioned for the past 4 to 5 years.
If you want to create Linux apps Lazarus is the way to go at the moment until a decision is made by Idera.
David Heffernan If Emb enters the Linux server market, they should, at a minimum, set the stage for the community to build a GUI solution on top. Think D.P.F. components for Linux. Could adding Firemonkey support for Linux be profitable? Depends on how much additional work it requires. There are a lot of parts of FMX on other operating systems that could transfer relatively easily to Linux. In the long term, it's possible. As long as they plant the seed, they could monitor its growth.
ReplyDeleteRichard Baroniunas Linux desktop is also free. Linux success is more than its low cost. True on Lazarus if staying with Pascal.
Problem with any kind of emulation layer is that it will always not fit nicely with the current desktop. Just have a look the the train wreck called Swing (Java). I'm using Gnome 3, and I find the desktop actually much nicer to work with than even window 10 (which I actually like). And would kill to have a great productivity tool like Delphi running on it, instead using the hotpotch of Python, C/C++. Writing apps in Delphi was fun for me, as it was the first language I used to generate income.
ReplyDeleteKyle Miller Yes, Linux Desktop is free but there is so little amount of users in the USA that it does not allow for a profit to be generated unless you are developing applications for internal usage.
ReplyDeleteAllowing FMX to generate Linux Server Applications would be better since there are a huge amount of web hosting firms that use Linux.
Richard Baroniunas FMX is a UI library; it would be of minimal use on a server.
ReplyDeleteMason Wheeler Ok, I will be clearer on this, any new type of development will come from the FireMonkey side and should operate with the similar concept as it is done with Android / OSX-iOS projects using the Rad Studio.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, it could happen but once again it depends on the developers that want it and whether money can be made.
Sorry to say but Linux desktops are far and few to be seen in the near future. This discussion has been going on for years.
Richard Baroniunas Yep, and "this year" has, for years, been "going to be the year in which desktop Linux takes off."
ReplyDeleteNot gonna happen, not this year or any year, not until the core Linux community stops being dominated by people who display outright hostility and contempt for the fundamental principles that desktop computing was based around.
In particular, if you still think that a command line is a user interface, or that it's appropriate to deploy a system in which it is necessary for the average end-user to know that a command line even exists for any reason, you are not qualified to build a desktop system for end-users. That ship sailed over 30 years ago with the advent of the Macintosh, and the *nix community has been in denial ever since.
I've never been a fan of Planck's cynical comment that progress happens by all the old guys who don't like your new discovery dying off, but I think in this particular case it just might be correct.
Mason Wheeler Everything is now dependent on Idera and at this point is guess work.
ReplyDeleteAndries Spies It depends on the challenges the emulation layer is having to deal with. Some have done it poorly and others are just fine. You can have full emulation or a hybrid. Firemonkey offers a rendering property for some controls and native being an option. No doubt the option will grow to more controls. While native look and feel is very important, I think user experience takes precedence. This is more obvious in the world of the web.
ReplyDeleteMason Wheeler You don't have to use the CLI. My wife uses Ubuntu and knows nothing of CLI. There are plenty of GUI apps and an app store to find them. And, you can add other software sources to get access to even more software. No CLI required. Now, knowing the CLI gives you more powerful just like knowing environmental variables and such in Windows is helpful. How many times have you Window experts told the novices something along the times of "Click the Start button and then Run. Type "cmd" and press enter."? Windows needs CLI too.
Kyle Miller I've never given that advice to anyone. I've never needed to. The closest I ever came to it was one time when a friend needed to change the extension of a ton of files in the same folder. I gave him the proper magic incantation and said "open Notepad, paste this in, save it with a .cmd extension, then run that file from Explorer."
ReplyDeleteBuilding any Linux front end code would be a colossal waste of idera's time and money. They would be much better served building a viable web stack
ReplyDelete