Not Delphi, but object pascal (Delphi + FPC + others.)
"This month the following changes have been made to the definition of the index:
Craig Chapman pointed out that most sites that refer to Pascal are actually referring to Object Pascal. After some investigation, it has been decided to assign 95% of the Pascal sites to Object Pascal and only 5% to Pascal itself. Thanks to this change Delphi/Object Pascal re-entered the TIOBE index top 10. "
If you really want to see if Delphi or Object Pascal or Lazarus is being used, look at the jobs wanted listing, that will tell you if there is a true rise in usage.
Polls from the internet are based on whom has seen them and how many times an individual can vote on it.
People - don't be angry! :) It's just a news. Delphi... pascal... object pascal... doesn't matter. Also... today is the Friday. Be happy, people! Peace! + V
Richard Baroniunas Jobs wanted listings isn't a good indicator either - it more tells how "movable" the developers are, typically based on the hype around a language. Java was hyped = many jobs, C# was hyped = many jobs. Being at bit rude now - but I meet many "average" developer just following the hype - never getting good at their craft. I would prefer that the "craftsmen" get to choose their tools - that they think is best for the job - and we loose all that stupid hype that has a tendency to influence bad management decision (on things they do not comprehend). If the end result is fast, stable, maintainable and the users are happy - who cares what the tool is. I have once, been hired through an ad. But I tend to avoid those, also when I am the one who hires. The "hyped" developers you could feed pigs with, and then they where on to the next "hyped" gig. Have a nice friday :)
Steffen Nyeland Sorry but available jobs is always the indicator. If you need a carpenter you do not put an ad for a plumber so if Delphi positions were open you would get more calls, in the states it is strictly Java or Visual Studio.
For my company it is nothing but Rad Studio for developed applications but I do receive more calls about VS or Java then anything else.
Richard Baroniunas Agreed there are many indicators, and none alone gives a clear picture. I have never advertised, and I still do get Delphi calls - and I do refer or turn them down - because the day only has 24 hours. One of the pictures I have seen is that companies are in need of C# developers, because the one they hired last month has left again - that is to me more an indication on people polish their CV - and some work is not getting done - no wonder they think they need more developers - when the project gets late again - Mythical Man-Month anyone. I would rather have one, good passionate Delphi developer - than 4 average "bounty" hunters. I do think we agree that it is frustrating to hear the old "Is Delphi still around" sound, from people who do not do their homework - when it is a tool we enjoy working with, and are very productive with. Now have a nice weekend :)
Joseph Carney Officially - yes. I'm sure that it is included during the calculation of the results. Also Pascal, Object Pascal and probably Blaise Pascal :) The most important thing is a something called a trend. The Delphi/Pascal trend shows that this language can not only survive but most probably can to develop, enrich and not at the end - can attract new customers. We are the customers - IT developers. Don't forget that Delphi is not a free IDE and it is not so cheap for some of us. However... this product was able to push back himself from the bottom and probably we will see a slow but long rally up. If we talk in the style of the commodity exchanges :)
I know, not free, in fact a little to rich for a small ISV like myself. I'm using Visual Studio (javascript, python, learning Swift...), Intel XDK (cross platform IOS, Android) and Eclipse (Java and JEE) for personal work. I use Delphi for my day job. May look at Lazarus/Free Pascal in near future.
Richard Baroniunas I know - but I can currently afford to say no - because more work doesn't make me richer or more effective - it might just kill me. So I try to do what I like, and often I can do the task at hand faster and better, at better price than if I had had the "customer" dictate the tool - and in the few cases where they did insist on the choice of tool to solve the issue - I told them and charged them extra. That helps pay the SA.
So... I think that all we can agree... A weekend - it is a place and time... Where... it was nice to be! :) I know... I know... But on Bulgarian sounds a little bit better. Cheers!
Joseph Carney I remember many years back, we kept buying Architect Editions - which did not make sense since we only used what was equivalent to the Pro. Ed. (using many 3rd party components) - so we changed that - but I was told that compared to some of the other IT costs - these were well spend money. I think every programmer should study a new language (a month/year), to give some perspective. I did at a point in time think the cost was too steep, and did use Lazarus - but the extra time I needed to get the final "polish" - was at that time better spend on maintaining the SA - it is a bill like one for electricity and gas. I do hope that IDERA/EMBT does adjust their price policy - but it is normally not the price that makes me abandon ship - it is bad management - which seems to look okay - from where I am standing. Let all hope that I am not wrong.
Richard Baroniunas Available jobs are not a good indicator. If something is available in quantity, you don't need to repeat the advert. If it's scarce you will get many ads per real job.
Alan Howlett Sorry but you are incorrect, if the job positions are needed to be filled by professionals then a notice is produced to head hunters, human resources or job boards.
In my position I am called by companies to come in and put out fires but for a kid coming out of college they have to grasp what is wanted by companies in a bigger picture.
Now for the kid, the only method is to look at the job wanted notices on the internet or at the companies to see what is necessary to know.
Michael Thuma I guess we can agree on that good things can come from knowing other languages - especially if they are based on different paradigms. And I guess we can also agree on many other things if I read you correctly :)
/tiobe :)
ReplyDeleteTiobe has been mostly discussed as useless. But that was when Delphi was way down on the list. It now seems that Tiobe is useful again =)
ReplyDeleteNot Delphi, but object pascal (Delphi + FPC + others.)
ReplyDelete"This month the following changes have been made to the definition of the index:
Craig Chapman pointed out that most sites that refer to Pascal are actually referring to Object Pascal. After some investigation, it has been decided to assign 95% of the Pascal sites to Object Pascal and only 5% to Pascal itself. Thanks to this change Delphi/Object Pascal re-entered the TIOBE index top 10. "
If you really want to see if Delphi or Object Pascal or Lazarus is being used, look at the jobs wanted listing, that will tell you if there is a true rise in usage.
ReplyDeletePolls from the internet are based on whom has seen them and how many times an individual can vote on it.
declared dead live longer
ReplyDeletePeople - don't be angry!
ReplyDelete:)
It's just a news. Delphi... pascal... object pascal... doesn't matter.
Also... today is the Friday. Be happy, people!
Peace!
+ V
We already had this info two weeks ago: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+HoracioJoseCavalcantiFilho/posts/59Dia86tAap
ReplyDeleteOliver Münzberg Sorry - my fault.
ReplyDeleteRichard Baroniunas Jobs wanted listings isn't a good indicator either - it more tells how "movable" the developers are, typically based on the hype around a language. Java was hyped = many jobs, C# was hyped = many jobs. Being at bit rude now - but I meet many "average" developer just following the hype - never getting good at their craft. I would prefer that the "craftsmen" get to choose their tools - that they think is best for the job - and we loose all that stupid hype that has a tendency to influence bad management decision (on things they do not comprehend). If the end result is fast, stable, maintainable and the users are happy - who cares what the tool is. I have once, been hired through an ad. But I tend to avoid those, also when I am the one who hires. The "hyped" developers you could feed pigs with, and then they where on to the next "hyped" gig. Have a nice friday :)
ReplyDeleteSteffen Nyeland Sorry but available jobs is always the indicator. If you need a carpenter you do not put an ad for a plumber so if Delphi positions were open you would get more calls, in the states it is strictly Java or Visual Studio.
ReplyDeleteFor my company it is nothing but Rad Studio for developed applications but I do receive more calls about VS or Java then anything else.
I wonder if this rating includes Free Pascal?
ReplyDeleteRichard Baroniunas Agreed there are many indicators, and none alone gives a clear picture. I have never advertised, and I still do get Delphi calls - and I do refer or turn them down - because the day only has 24 hours.
ReplyDeleteOne of the pictures I have seen is that companies are in need of C# developers, because the one they hired last month has left again - that is to me more an indication on people polish their CV - and some work is not getting done - no wonder they think they need more developers - when the project gets late again - Mythical Man-Month anyone.
I would rather have one, good passionate Delphi developer - than 4 average "bounty" hunters. I do think we agree that it is frustrating to hear the old "Is Delphi still around" sound, from people who do not do their homework - when it is a tool we enjoy working with, and are very productive with. Now have a nice weekend :)
Joseph Carney Officially - yes. I'm sure that it is included during the calculation of the results. Also Pascal, Object Pascal and probably Blaise Pascal :)
ReplyDeleteThe most important thing is a something called a trend.
The Delphi/Pascal trend shows that this language can not only survive but most probably can to develop, enrich and not at the end - can attract new customers. We are the customers - IT developers.
Don't forget that Delphi is not a free IDE and it is not so cheap for some of us. However... this product was able to push back himself from the bottom and probably we will see a slow but long rally up.
If we talk in the style of the commodity exchanges :)
Steffen Nyeland Agreed, when I get the call I use Rad Studio over VS any day but I still have to pay the bills.
ReplyDeleteI know, not free, in fact a little to rich for a small ISV like myself. I'm using Visual Studio (javascript, python, learning Swift...), Intel XDK (cross platform IOS, Android) and Eclipse (Java and JEE) for personal work. I use Delphi for my day job. May look at Lazarus/Free Pascal in near future.
ReplyDeleteRichard Baroniunas I know - but I can currently afford to say no - because more work doesn't make me richer or more effective - it might just kill me. So I try to do what I like, and often I can do the task at hand faster and better, at better price than if I had had the "customer" dictate the tool - and in the few cases where they did insist on the choice of tool to solve the issue - I told them and charged them extra. That helps pay the SA.
ReplyDeleteSo...
ReplyDeleteI think that all we can agree...
A weekend - it is a place and time...
Where... it was nice to be!
:)
I know... I know...
But on Bulgarian sounds a little bit better.
Cheers!
Joseph Carney I remember many years back, we kept buying Architect Editions - which did not make sense since we only used what was equivalent to the Pro. Ed. (using many 3rd party components) - so we changed that - but I was told that compared to some of the other IT costs - these were well spend money.
ReplyDeleteI think every programmer should study a new language (a month/year), to give some perspective. I did at a point in time think the cost was too steep, and did use Lazarus - but the extra time I needed to get the final "polish" - was at that time better spend on maintaining the SA - it is a bill like one for electricity and gas. I do hope that IDERA/EMBT does adjust their price policy - but it is normally not the price that makes me abandon ship - it is bad management - which seems to look okay - from where I am standing. Let all hope that I am not wrong.
Richard Baroniunas Available jobs are not a good indicator. If something is available in quantity, you don't need to repeat the advert. If it's scarce you will get many ads per real job.
ReplyDeleteAlan Howlett Sorry but you are incorrect, if the job positions are needed to be filled by professionals then a notice is produced to head hunters, human resources or job boards.
ReplyDeleteIn my position I am called by companies to come in and put out fires but for a kid coming out of college they have to grasp what is wanted by companies in a bigger picture.
Now for the kid, the only method is to look at the job wanted notices on the internet or at the companies to see what is necessary to know.
Michael Thuma I guess we can agree on that good things can come from knowing other languages - especially if they are based on different paradigms.
ReplyDeleteAnd I guess we can also agree on many other things if I read you correctly :)
Please can we import things like += and ++, and can we do a mass move from := and = to = and == like in C? I guess not
ReplyDelete