Some news from Embarcadero:
Some news from Embarcadero:
http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update
http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update
http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update
http://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16416-product-roadmap-update
(;
ReplyDeleteCan someone explain why embarcadero fire 80 employees in Spain ? Is this the compromise with quality ?
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDeleteTo be fair: we don't have any knowledge about the competence of those other 100s developers Atanas is referring to. So I am not going to judge them in advance. Interestingly, this outsourcing approach is exactly the business model I make the most of my income with.
ReplyDeleteIt's about cost cutting. It's not the end of the world. but IMO, it may slow certain things down for a while, while the outsourcing teams familiarize themselves with the code.
ReplyDeleteI worry a bit about the high level architecture understanding of the various pieces for these new external developers.
An architecture can take a long time to grasp, especially if there is no in-depth knowledge transfer. You can only capture so much in written documentation.
Remember, we are not talking about a end user application outsourcing here, where internal changes can be as ugly as hell, as long the application still works - but pretty sophisticated and complicated architectural decisions exposed in source code that affects us all.
The post attempts to address some of our worries, but I think it is pretty thin on facts and measurables, and it most certainly is not a proper roadmap update.
As for RAD Server - that reeks of locked-in enterprise solutions I never asked for. As a developer, I want building materials and good tools - not prefab's.
Uwe Raabe re the business model: That's my plan too; I can't do everything myself!! :-)
ReplyDeleteI cannot make any sense of that post at all. It's written in a language that I simply do not understand.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal If EMB adds to their income with products like Rad Server thats OK, but they must not take development resources away from Delphi.
ReplyDeleteFully agree about technology transfer. Who is going to take care of the compilers etc
David Heffernan It's Spindoctorese. A language that should have become extinct decades ago, but which is kept alive by a small tribe of corporate raiders.
ReplyDeleteWhat matters is what they deliver and I do not see a Linux tech preview delivered with Berlin. Hundred developers - in order to do serious work on the Delphi product one first needs deep knowledge and understanding of the paradigms. There are hardly ten out of that hundred developers that match that criterias that do not already participate in the community and are know. A need for more components? Seems that the not everyone understands what a language needs today.
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDeleteI didn't expect anything different. It is business as usual. However, we can see that Linux is still on the road map. If this change in teams will affect it, time will tell...
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan the layout is pretty poor, it could use some breaking up of paragraphs, but once you get past the spindoctorese introduction, it is not that bad. We have had far worse from the usual suspects back in the Borland/Inprise/CodeGear/Embarcadero days.
ReplyDeleteWhile the layoffs are a bit scary, all the "new shiny stuff" was outsourced/bought for quite a few years already, so the outsourcing model was already well under way before Idera.
The Linux stuff is mentioned again, which is good, however the hows and the whos are not mentioned, which is not exactly good. And as Uwe Schuster said, what matter there is what they deliver, which at this point is still nothing (not even a tech demo or preview).
Finally some of the recent Delphi libraries have been quite scary from a stability and quality point of view, from the RTL changes to FMX or the JSON / REST support, there is a lot of recent code that has not exactly been awe inspiring.
The 100s of devs can and will learn, but only if they do not get outsourced/rotated before that... and anyway for users, 100s of learning devs just means years of high-priced trouble.
David Nottage Indeed! Although the smiley indicates you got me right, just in case to make it clear for others: I am not outsourcing work, but rather am I the one to whom work is outsourced to. Who knows - perhaps sometime in the future I am asked to do some stuff for Delphi? Um - probably not, as my price quote won't match.
ReplyDeleteWhy would we need components? We got those with DevExpress, TMS, Torry and so on...
ReplyDeleteWhat we need is Language and IDE improvments. For example they hired the Parnassus guy. Why not implement his great addons like bookmarks and navigator in the IDE directly?
After applying filters for spin and market-speak, I was left with the empty string.
ReplyDeleteVin Diesel
ReplyDeleteThe problem of components is interesting. Delphi had to ship with components, or it had nothing to show. However, unless Borland (historic) were to be the sole authors of components, they needed a third-party VCL industry, and for Borland to ship improved components would be to compete with a fledgling industry it needed to foster.
Today, there are so very many components out there that I can only see it as counterproductive (and a waste of resources) for Embarcadero to roll its own.
Nothing but corporate speak with little substance. And their Linux roadmap is proprietary. I noticed he talked about partners (3rd party vendors) and large corp clients. Nothing for the ISV.
ReplyDeleteAt least MS got the message of open source with .net core released for multiple platforms.
The future is high
ReplyDelete/blablabla
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gAL7f1Qjjk
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDelete/toomanynewsfortuesday
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández Can you please stop reporting conversations with a spin, making my words mean something different? It has been ongoing for a few days. First you complained not having an answer without introducing yourself, after you sent a totally anonymous email. I don't like answering to unknown people.
ReplyDeleteToday I wrote we don't have a near-term plan to move the Windows Win32 compiler to the LLVM architecture because compilation time will probably be dreadful and for other technical reasons I have already discussed in public forums. I didn't say I'm "not really interested of any kind of compiler improvements". In fact I wrote you that we plan expanding the Delphi compiler for all platforms, probably keeping the current architecture for a while.
Please just share your opinions, and stop attributing to others things they have not said.
Javier Hernández Nice how you change topic...
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández You should explain why you are mis-reporting my words, claiming I wrote something I never did, and you keep doing it after I complained with you in private. Enough said and better go back to work.
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández Show some respect. It is not Marco who closed the Spanish office!
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández I think that Marco Cantù does listen. The fact that he doesn't always do what you ask instantly, or even disagrees with you doesn't mean that he doesn't listen.
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández Calm down please. He has no duty whatsoever to explain anything related to the Spanish office. If anybody should explain something then its the head, and they only need to explain themself to the ex employees of obvious reasons.
ReplyDeleteYou are not doing yourself nor any of the readers any favors pressing on as you do right now.
Peace!
David Heffernan The blog post reminds me of a T-shirt I had. On the front it said "I see your lips move but all I hear is blah blah blah".
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the only thing I got out of the blog post is that "yes we fired all those guys in Spain because outsourcing rocks".
Asbjørn Heid I don't know how you managed to extract even that much!! Well done.
ReplyDeleteMarco Cantù
ReplyDeleteThank you for the clarification. Obviously writing a LLVM frontend for Win32 would be a waste of time, Win32 is end-of-life anyway. Not only would compile time degrade, but the excellent debugger for Win32 would suffer as well.
The LLVM frontend for win64/OSX64/Lin64 (i.e. x64) would go a long way to futureproofing the compiler and I'm guessing you're leaving that option open, which would be great.
Javier Hernández
ReplyDeleteWin32 is obsolete and X87 code is even more obsolete. If I were Emba I would not bother with it. SSE code is a different story.
Ripping out a working compiler for an obsolete platform is craziness and would do us all a huge disservice.
You seem to forget that Emba has to carefully pick its battles. It's not Microsoft that can afford to do everything at once and abandon 7 out of 10 efforts.
It would be interesting to hear out of the Developer Relations types Jim McKeeth David Intersimone How many staff members are left that have more than a year or two of experience? Are you two supporting Delphi any longer? If so, what's the word from your side of things?
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández Linux 64 bit compiler will show what they managed to do regarding codegen using LLVM.
ReplyDeleteDid I get it right? Javier Hernández and 99 juniors had been working on the sickest compiler in the world and Marco Cantù has fired the whole crew for not delivering a thing in ten-fifteen years.
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández build times are a very big deal. I use lots of generics and they have already slowed down the current win32 compiler build time. As stated by others, Marco most likely had nothing to do with the Spain team layoffs. It could be they just aren't happy with the performance of that team.
ReplyDeleteJavier Hernández For your code function Add inlined - which compilers and compiler settings did you use for the generated machine code you listed for XE6 and 10.1? Did you also do execution timings?
ReplyDeleteDarian Miller I'm frequently in meetings with people who have been working on Delphi longer than I have been here, but I don't have any total numbers. And all the new people I've talked to are just as committed and passionate about the products as anyone else seems to be.
ReplyDeleteDavid Intersimone
ReplyDeleteThe code shown is a correct representation of inlined code with optimization on and stack-frames off. Because the 'double' needs 8 bytes it cannot be passed in 32-bit regs and thus goes via the stack.
Even if the function is inlined the compiler still follows stack logic.
/sub
ReplyDeleteI timed the Add function. 140 ms inlined and 1061 ms without inlining. A loop with 100 million cycles. Delphi 10 Seattle, optimization on, no stack frames and 32-bit. For x64 the result is 312 vs. 272 ms.
ReplyDeleteParsing 80mb JSON array with xe7 1.5gb+ ram and slow as hell. Which mobile os can handle this without killing the offending process? Even on windows this could result in out of memory. Linux is for the cloud! Check how much an instance with 1gb of ram costs. Huge savings from RAD TOOLS surely! Ppl writing streaming json parser is not rocket science and i'm sure most of you could do it in several hours. But do you have to do it in 2016, that's your personal choice.
ReplyDeleteI'm not gonna comment on the universal monkey ui savings of time ...
/sub
ReplyDelete