How often you see this when debugging x64 programs? It happens to me after clicking one or two times on Call Stack. (Delphi 10.1 Update 2)
How often you see this when debugging x64 programs? It happens to me after clicking one or two times on Call Stack. (Delphi 10.1 Update 2)
After this Delphi IDE is dead and needs to be restarted.
ReplyDeleteI always do my debugging with the 32 bit debugger which is stable and robust. That's by far the most productive approach.
ReplyDeleteUpdate 2? We fixed an issue like this in update 2, although it was in the C++ side. If you can reliably reproduce, and even better if you can attach the debug info the debugger will be loading in a QP (including sending to us privately), we can look into it.
ReplyDeleteEven the 32-bit is not as stable as it used to be. Threads appear to be a frequent cause of lock ups, and quite often the debugger dies off.
ReplyDeleteDebugger bugs can be very hard to track down. We definitely want to fix them, but the more specific and reproduceable information you can give, the better. If necessary, as a last resort, you can send us a snapshot of a built application.
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington The 64 bit Delphi debugger has utterly rubbish from day 1. If Emba want to do something about it they just need to spend some time using it.
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan We do use the debuggers in-house. The best chance of getting bugs fixed is to file specific, reproducible, detailed bug reports.
ReplyDeleteI want to improve the debugger quality, but I can't do that by saying "Go use it." I can by saying, "Go fix RSP- x, y and z."
...and anyone reading this is welcome to email me at firstname dot lastname @embarcadero.com, and say, "I filed this bug, it's got enough to repro, it's a problem for us because X, please fix it." I like emails like that :)
ReplyDelete64bit debugger was always unstable for me. Last time i used together with TopDown allocation enabled, the debugger crashed immediatly. As far as i can see this issue was never fixed: http://qc.embarcadero.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=100174
ReplyDeleteqc.embarcadero.com - QualityCentral
The problem with the x64 debugger is that none of the issues are reproducible but they occur sovery often thus making it practially unusable.
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington If you would spend some time in the x64 debugger you'd have the same problems that everybody else has. Then you could file internal bugs and get them fixed.
ReplyDeleteIt is stretching credulity that so many people external to Emba know that the x64 debugger is a pile of crap, and those internal to Emba can't find anything wrong with it.
I suspect a lack of dog fooding.
I exclusively use the x64 debugger in D10.1 Berlin and rarely have an issue. A couple releases ago I always used the 32-bit debugger and built/deployed 64-bit server side apps but lately the first thing I do is add Win-64 and remove Win-32 platform support. I can't remember the last time it locked up or failed me...but I don't do client side dev work in this version.
ReplyDeleteDarian Miller multi threaded server app debugging under win64 is pretty unstable for me...
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington It's nice that you are prepared to take up our cases for us. Thanks for the offer. Are you able to pursue the long standing issues regarding poor codegen (in terms of performance) and more specifically poor floating point performance of Delphi code? Or would that just be a waste of all of our time?
ReplyDeleteA. Bouchez I stayed on XE2 for awhile, which I thought was much better than the 2009-XE versions, before jumping to XE5 and to XE7 where the system eventually became a little more stable. Seattle had numerous IDE issues that seem to have been mostly corrected in Berlin. I get more IDE issues than debugger issues these days, but significantly fewer IDE issues since I reverted my dev machine back to Windows 7, away from Windows 10. I'd assert that Windows 10 exacerbates the stability problems. I'll stick with Windows 7 + 10 Berlin Update 1 (I haven't tried Update 2 yet...something on my plate today) over any previous version of Delphi for server side work.
ReplyDeleteI've never had any issues with the 64bit debugger that I can recall. Then again, I haven't debugged any really complex programs with it, so probably related...
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan The Delphi compiler isn't my area, but I can certainly forward them on internally. I look after C++, the IDE, and the debugger - those are areas you can raise to me and I can definitely do something about.
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington The x64 debugger is well known by us users to be exceptionally flaky. Are Emba really not aware of this also?
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan We fixed one issue in Update 2. For others, we really need reproducible cases.
ReplyDeleteDavid Millington Try debugging my program for instance.
ReplyDeleteDavid Heffernan Sure, happy to. This might be a good approach: list the issues you see, and put them in QPs (one per QP); if the application source is private, contact me and we can arrange an upload, preferably of a snapshot of source + debug info + final built EXE. I've even asked for VMs from people in the past, which gives a perfect snapshot of the entire environment in which they see issues. If you can attach screenshots or something else demonstrating the issues (if it's a crash, fine, but if it's misbehaviour that's very useful) then please do too.
ReplyDeleteDarian Miller My concern with Windows 7 is that some "serious" OS API (like WebSockets support for http.sys) are not available on it. Windows 7 starts to be outdated, in comparison with production server OS we use...
ReplyDelete