http://thecodinglove.com/post/153472311975/when-i-hear-someone-say-delphi-is-a-great-tool-for
http://thecodinglove.com/post/153472311975/when-i-hear-someone-say-delphi-is-a-great-tool-for
P.S. Take it with a smile and not too seriously ;)
http://thecodinglove.com/post/153472311975/when-i-hear-someone-say-delphi-is-a-great-tool-for
P.S. Take it with a smile and not too seriously ;)
http://thecodinglove.com/post/153472311975/when-i-hear-someone-say-delphi-is-a-great-tool-for
HaHaHa
ReplyDeleteAgreed! IW...
ReplyDeleteFor web development, it is not a great tool for web dev "per se". IntraWeb or WebBroker are now outdated. But you may do modern MVC with our Mustache-based renderer http://synopse.info/files/html/Synopse%20mORMot%20Framework%20SAD%201.18.html#TITLE_490
ReplyDeleteor use unigui unigui.com - FMSoft uniGUI Web Application Framework
ReplyDeleteA. Bouchez can you elaborate why you consider IntraWeb to be outdated?
ReplyDeleteAlexandre Machado Go to http://www.atozed.com/intraweb/index.en.aspx and it still shows Delphi XE screenshots. But http://www.atozed.com/intraweb/History/XIV/index.EN.aspx seems more active, for sure. Still waiting for more client-side rendering How many clients can concurrently be served?
ReplyDelete/sub
ReplyDeleteA. Bouchez I thought you said that IntraWeb is outdated not that Atozed web site is outdated. You are judging a product by its package. I know, by other users, including IntraWeb customers, that mormot is a great framework, but its site obviously was not created by a professional web designer, am I right? Compare Synopse website and RTC's and then I can conclude that RTC is much better. Does it make sense to you? About your question: IntraWeb is a stateful application. As such, it has its advantages and also disadvantages. I have a working web application created with IntraWeb which serves 3k users using a single - modest - server, using the stand alone (Indy based) server. As ISAPI it would handle more. It can be easily configured to use some load balancer, though. Being stateful doesn't make it outdated either. This online demo shows a IW application using IW Bootstrap (an open source, IntraWeb library). Does it look outdated to you? http://iwbs.sig2k.com/iwbootstrap
ReplyDeleteAlexandre Machado Of course, IntraWeb works. Its RAD approach is its power, but also its limitation. I didn't want to spread FUD: but all companies I know which used IntraWeb clearly testified to me its limitations and old design. Why do you think most web sites use an explicit MVC architecture?
ReplyDeleteBTW you gave me a good argument: IntraWeb was not built with responsive design in mind (it did not exist at time of its creation), this is why a third-party IWBootstrap is needed. Position and Size of controls are managed by Bootstrap CSS, and is clearly tricky to integrate in IW RAD. With true MVC, you may be able to give your template to a web designer, whereas here you need to use Delphi to change the UI, since it is tied to the logic. Sounds like a deprecated limitation for any serious web development.
About performance, I was talking about concurrent users.
A. Bouchez you clearly don't know IntraWeb. You can use templates in IntraWeb and use external HTML, CSS, images, whatever. Created by a web designer that don't even know which technology it will use. I've done it myself in more than one project. The fact that IW allows you do do RAD, doesn't mean that you have to do it. Just like Delphi. Do you use RAD in your projects? I guess not, correct? But how can you, if you are using a RAD tool??? IntraWeb allows you to do both. Everything you can do in VCL Delphi you can do with IntraWeb, including MVC.
ReplyDeleteA. Bouchez About the FUD part: Unless you have experienced a particular problem with IntraWeb yourself, which you do know for sure that is a problem with the framework, I consider your consideration about IW more thad FUD. This is disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteAbout the performance: You know the difference between a web site and a web application, I guess? Or do you believe in one-size-fits-all solutions? The fact that IntraWeb might not be the right tool to create a site intended to handle the whole population of China at once, doesn't mean that it is outdated. You, again, just don't know the tool and is just saying something that you heard around someday from someone....
Alexandre Machado I used the tool (as integrated with Delphi) and flow away from it as fast as I could, since I missed/needed the MVC architecture. IntraWeb sounds outdated when compared to MV* (MVC/MVP/MVVM....) web projects as proposed by other C#, PHP or Angular tools. Delphi projects like https://github.com/marcocantu/DelphiRazor (or our Mustache MVC) seem less outdated to me, since they follow clear separation of UI and logic.
ReplyDeleteFor a Web desktop portal, in addition to an existing VCL app, IntraWeb may be just fine. For web site or mobile web app development (which was the point of the initial post), its old design is a limitaiton.
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ReplyDeleteAlexandre Machado The iwbootstrap looks really nice. My personal problem is the strange legal position of intraWeb itself. It does still belong to somebody, somewhere. But imagine the same situation with ASP.NET. No chance to include such products into strategic development proposals. But this is for sure not your fault! But I can still not understand why EMBT has not just bought or rebuilt a basic WebPlatform as a base for all the capable 3rd party providers. With the availability of a Linux version we will miss this common and properly supported platform even more.
ReplyDeleteI would never use MVC for web development. I don't like doing triple the work. If IntraWeb is able to handle responsive design with BootStrap then that makes it viable. Not being responsive was always my complaint about it.
ReplyDeleteA. Bouchez You clearly don't have a clue about IntraWeb and you showed more than once in this thread. I won't spend more time on this. Have a good day!
ReplyDeleteGünther Schoch Of course IntraWeb belongs to somebody, somewhere. Just like DevExpress, ReportBuilder, TMS, and many other tool vendors out there which are critical for many Delphi shops. About your question on EMBT policies: I don't have not even a speculation :-)
ReplyDeleteAlexandre Machado thank you for commenting my remarks. Let me explain my concerns in other words. For me it would be not at all a problem if there is a proper Brazilian company with 5 dedicated and known heads behind the product. But I have problems with a semi existing Cyprus based address and nothing more. As well, if I remember right, the IntraWeb core is always missing some files to be delivered in source. Again: nothing against you. IMO the products survives because of your efforts. But I miss a strategy driven by EMBT to drive a clear message to the market.
ReplyDeleteGünther Schoch Atozed Software was founded and owned by Chad Hower since day one, and still is. He is a very well known developer in the Delphi community, since Delphi 1. He lived in Cyprus for many years (and many other places) and so the company is still legally registered there. These are the simple facts.
ReplyDeleteGünther Schoch Borland build WebSnap. Nobody in their good mind uses that. href, IntraWeb and a few others provide better web platforms since.
ReplyDeleteNote that most 3rd party providers are relatively small (1-10 people) with very few exceptions.
Alexandre Machado I just tried to explain how larger development companies evaluates the 3rd party products. Our company does develop with Delphi since V1 and we know Chad Howers (Kudzu's) story and bought products provided by Atozed. The point the longterm perspective of the eco-system, the clear legal aspects and the full source code access. Based on that aspects none of the Delphi based Web development frameworks can convince us. I think this was the initial point of this thread. That is the view of me and my company. Has not to be true for others.
ReplyDeleteGünther Schoch I understand your position and I'm not trying to convince you of the opposite. I'm just setting the facts straight. There has been enough FUD about IntraWeb here for this week. ;-) Have a nice weekend!
ReplyDeleteAlexandre Machado not yet sleeping? I thought your are living in Brasil? Seems that I am completely wrong. Perhaps you send me an E-Mail to guenther.schochATgs-soft.com. Would be really interesting to discuss the situation in more details.
ReplyDelete