Today we received an offer from Embarcadero for the renewal of our subscription. So far, so good.
Today we received an offer from Embarcadero for the renewal of our subscription. So far, so good.
To my surprise they introduced a new additional Premium/Platinum level on top of the subscription. Reading through the description I found out we won't be allowed any longer to attend CodeRage without having this additional Premium/Platinum subscription. Even some other services of the normal subscription are now moved exclusively to this extra subscription level (e.g. access to beta releases, top issue support for previous releases).
I did ask for a clarification before we'll go to renew our subscription. Currently I'm in the mood to cancel all existing subscriptions and go back to a normal update every 3 to 4 years.
[update]: The new Premium Update Subscription is already described at https://www.embarcadero.com/support
To my surprise they introduced a new additional Premium/Platinum level on top of the subscription. Reading through the description I found out we won't be allowed any longer to attend CodeRage without having this additional Premium/Platinum subscription. Even some other services of the normal subscription are now moved exclusively to this extra subscription level (e.g. access to beta releases, top issue support for previous releases).
I did ask for a clarification before we'll go to renew our subscription. Currently I'm in the mood to cancel all existing subscriptions and go back to a normal update every 3 to 4 years.
[update]: The new Premium Update Subscription is already described at https://www.embarcadero.com/support
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ReplyDeletePart of the annual fee includes a few support tickets. I think in my entire life I have maybe used two or three tickets, and they were for people I was working for at the time (on their accounts). As I recall, I was able to talk to one of the devs inside the factory. In one case it ended up being a "known issue" that was already fixed and ready to release in the next version. Another took a while to determine it was a bug and then they put in an internal ticket about it, but we never got any resolution; we had to work out our own solution b/c we couldn't wait most of a year for a fix (that's IF it was fixed in the next release, which is never a guarantee). You can talk, but you can't get fixes. Like most vendors, they won't help with anything that seems related to third-party components unless you can actually prove it's a bug in the underlying system, which is really the component vendor's job.
ReplyDeleteSo while this seems like a nice component of the renewal fee, it has been of no value to me over the years. And if you don't use them one year, they don't accrue. Otherwise, I'd have a few dozen of them by now.
Their new "Platinum" support is just more of this, separating out stuff people aren't likely to pay for or use in order to squeeze out few more bucks per license from customers. I imagine corporations won't care and probably toss in the additional bux without much thought.
Didn't they used to charge for CodeRage? Then they made it free. Now it looks like 1/2 or 3/4 of it is reserved for "Platinum" members.
What else can these guys do to keep the lid on this product and keep people from being exposed to it? They need to GROW THE MARKET, not shrink it! You can only tap into a small and loyal user base for so long.
oh boy...
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ReplyDeleteInstead of just lurking, why don't you guys chime in? It's rare that company officials ever reply to threads like this. What are you waiting to see?
ReplyDeleteI want to see vision.
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ReplyDeleteDavid Schwartz I usually actively remove posts that are about EMBT policies and biz.practices, since that allows EMBT officials to post about coding related issues here, without being chased on policies and biz related issues. Such posts really belong on the official forums.
ReplyDeleteI'll make an exception in this case, since this is a pretty darn stupid decision by EMBT.
Unless... the standard subscription receives a lowered price compared to today, and the Premium remains at the current price point.
ReplyDeleteDavid Schwartz I am hoping to see something, but I am not anticipating to see anything.
ReplyDeleteJeroen Wiert Pluimers the vision is obvious: maximize revenue from a (dwindling?) number of paying customers.
Lars Fosdal it is not that stupid if you consider that restricting beta-testers and input allows to focus on the needs of the high-paying customers.
I see it as a silent "Inprise" move: consider the low paying masses a lost cause (and every such sale a side benefit), and focus on (relatively few) higher-paying corporate customers.
Lars Fosdal I did write an e-mail to Embarcadero asking for clarification. And if I'm not asked to keep it confidential, I plan to post an related update here.
ReplyDeleteLosing access to the beta releases and getting top issue fixes for previous versions isn't really a problem for me. This might affect only a small fraction of the developer community - but I may be wrong.
With a lot of good will I could justify this for me with getting access to new additional compilers and features in the next release instead.
But being asked to pay 332 EUR/person extra on top of our existing Enterprise subscription for being allowed to attend the next CodeRage is quite confusing. It's almost like being asked for paying a monthly fee for receiving the Embarcadero newsletter.
/sad :(
ReplyDeleteI have already received this offer last year when my subscription was due to renewal. What I say here is just my personal perception and is in no way backed by anything said by Embarcadero.
ReplyDeleteThe sales people are probably forced to add this Premium Subscription to any renewal offer. This has the effect that for some customers the subscription renewal looks more expensive as it actually is.
The description of Premium Subscription doesn't say that you don't have access to betas without it. You just get "beta program privileges", whatever that actually means. If you inspect the feature comparison chart you can easily see this. As far as I can see there is nothing taken away from the standard subscription.
I am not sure about the "Annual CodeRage Pass". If they make CodeRage for Premium Subscription only they can as well cancel these events right from the start. As near to no one will be attending it will be hard to find even presenters. But perhaps it nothing more than just a VIP status.
Fred Ahrens I agree. It is likely that we would also forego a premium version such as currently outlined.
ReplyDeleteUwe Raabe I agree. Most of the Premium benefits are described in a quite vague way. In one place it's described as having no access to fixes for previous versions without having Premium subscriptions - but if you read through the details, it's also available again for Standard subscription - there is no description of the differences between "support" and "priority support" - and so on.
ReplyDeleteEven the naming of this extra level isn't consistent in the documents - sometimes called "Premium", sometimes called "Platinum".
It all looks like work in progress, published before final approval.
Oh my ... getting weird at embc. Now in second year with subscription but don't know if we should switch back to updates every 2-3 or 4 years. I think embc should do more to get more users to subscription and make it more interesting for developers. Missing good old days where updates we're not an "extra"
ReplyDeleteUse this:
ReplyDeleteRalf Stocker It's called DELPHI!
ReplyDeleteEric Grange Being a high paying customer, doesn't necessarily make you a more qualified beta tester, or a more relevant customer for future focus feedback. EMBT needs a balance between those maintaining the old, modernizing the old, and those forging the next generation of Delphi.
ReplyDeleteAs a subscriber, I get access to the beta, but the subscriber access had no shared forum. Having a beta, but nowhere to discuss its issues, is pretty pointless.
If I am supposed to pay extra to get access to the beta and a forum, I am going to pass. It is fun to test new stuff, but not worth a premium price. I might as well wait for the public beta (i.e. first release).
Ralf Stocker There is no alternative that can replace it, so that is not a viable option. FPC is severly lacking in features.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal AFAIK, even the subscribers participating in the beta have access to the newsgroup. At least I know of some of them posting there.
ReplyDeleteUpdate: I received an answer from Embarcadero. It's just an updated quotation without the premium level subscription. No words regarding CodeRage and features/services moved from standard subscription to premium subscription.
ReplyDeleteUwe Raabe That may be true, but the documentation explicitly states: "There is no forums setup at this time for the members of the Embarcadero Subscription Update Customer program." Personally, I happened to discover the access quite late as I don't read the official boards very often.
ReplyDeleteMy original SA renewal quote was way higher than I expected, and when I asked about it, I was told it included the Premium support package. After some discussion, they sent me an invoice for the regular SA renewal without Premium support.
ReplyDeleteDo y'all know they automatically bump up the SA by 8% or so every year?
BTW, I've worked at companies for periods of time during product ramp-ups, and EMBT extends NDAs and the opportunity for the company's developers to participate fully in the ramp-ups, including access to betas, the discussion groups, and even a direct channel to someone in-house with questions. Corporate accounts ARE given "VIP" treatment, although I've never figured out why, because all of these places were quite slow to adopt the newly-released versions, often by more than 6 months.
During CodeRage, we were told we weren't authorized to participate during work hours, but we could do it on our own time.
Searching Google, a lot of advanced topics are covered during CodeRage that aren't discussed anywhere else. This is sad given the fact that hardly any books have been published about Delphi over the past decade, while the product has undergone some amazing evolution. Restricting access to CodeRage seems quite silly to me, because it's simply ensuring that even FEWER of the new features of Delphi will be visible to prospective customers.
David Schwartz As said above I renewed my subscription last year without the Premium stuff and no one hindered me to participate in the following CodeRage - neither the open part nor the one for subscription customers only. ANd they also didn't charge for it. I doubt that this will change in the future. After all, CodeRage is a significant part of their marketing.
ReplyDeleteLars Fosdal beta testing for a highly-priced product should come with a discount, not a price hike... at least it does in most of the software industry with a growth-oriented vision.
ReplyDeleteHowever restricting access and raising price makes perfect sense for a "cash cow" product, as you want to minimize the costs of prospective features and testing, and instead maximize the returns for the (current) high paying customers, in other words, focus all the funds and effort on the points that matter to those existing customers.
More people testing means more bugs discovered early on and early bugs are more easily fixable. End result higher quality product.
ReplyDeleteDalija Prasnikar yes, but on a product of this complexity, it is easily to overwhelm a small team with a deluge of bugs, and if just 50% of bugs do not affect the key customers at all, that's twice more resources to fix the bugs that do matter to key customers. The alternative is bug triage, but triaging bugs takes resources as well.
ReplyDeleteNot saying I like this strategy for Delphi, but the baseline is that any software product can be made profitable if you apply a cash cow strategy. All software products end up at the slaughter house at one point or another, but cash cows make their owners rich all the way to the slaughter house (which incidentally can pay for young cows).
So, want a cheeseburger ? :)
Eric Grange Fiscallly, as a software developer, I am starting to look positively vegetarian :D
ReplyDeleteEric Grange That is what triage is for. And it takes less resources than finding bugs on their own. And it costs less than having buggy product people don't want to buy.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot fix bugs you don't know that exist. And for small teams that cannot do their part of testing to proper extent it is even more important to include customers in testing process as much as possible. And that means as many as possible. That is the only way to reduce critical and regression issues in release.
The fuk...
ReplyDeleteDalija Prasnikar a high number of bug reports can easily overwhelm the triage capability of a small team (such as in a public beta with hundreds of beta-testers, triage can be a full-time job for several people).
ReplyDeleteAlso consider that if you want to keep high-paying customers more than you want to recruit new ones, triage is obvious: high-paying customer bugs win... but in a more open-beta, this will only create frustration for other customers (and bad press, etc.)
On the other hand, if you have high number of bugs, and a small team - you are really not near ready for a release, are you...
ReplyDeleteEric Grange Agreed, but I don't think Delphi is currently in danger of having too many beta testers.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, beta testing is time consuming process for the beta testers. Not all developers are willing to spend their time doing that.
Next, one of the most common, and usually most thorough way to test (beta test) any new version of any tool is testing it on your own code base. That is and will be a problem for developers using many 3rd party tools. They might not be in position to beta test their code base at all or only in limited amount.
You will probably find more 3rd party users in larger companies using more expensive SKUs. Also such users will have larger code bases that need more time to move across versions. They may not be in position to test their code and the less they test the less bugs they may report. So all in all, those that are in better position to afford premium price will be the ones that might not be doing any beta testing at all.
And the last but not the least. No matter when, bugs will be revealed if people stumble upon them. If they don't do that during beta testing, they will after the release. And again number of bugs may be overwhelming for small teams. Only at this point some bugs may be more costly to fix.
Dalija Prasnikar This is why I stopped playing with Delphi betas. It's impossible to load up existing projects without updates to 3rd-party libs, most of which aren't available until a month or more after the official product release. So while it may be fun to play with some of the new language features and whatnot, unless you want to spend a ton of time building scaffolding for stuff, I don't think it's worth the time.
ReplyDelete/update-subscription
ReplyDelete>Embarcadero invests nearly 2x the industry average in R&D as a
ReplyDelete>percentage of sales.
More fun with Embarcadero math....
I think this is meant to make us think they spend a fortune on R&D (an odd thing to convince us of since they shut down an R&D facility). However, the more likely explanation is a small amount of sales.
>With a world-class 97% customer satisfaction rate
I wonder if this is based on that time David I. surveyed the first 500 people to buy a new release (which of course misses 100% of the people who couldn't afford the upgrade, didn't think it offered them anything they needed, wanted to wait to see if it was buggy, etc.). The "97% satisfaction rate" is probably calculated the same way they determined that there are over three million users (i.e. Michael Swindell and a random number generator). At this point they've just given marketing free reign to make up anything they want. :-(